Recently, Roger Stogsdill, outgoing pastor of Tucson First Brethren Church, sat down to interview Josh Buck, incoming pastor, to discuss the transition process of leadership and church replanting. During the interview Pastor Josh shares:

📚 The three distinct models for church renovation and why Tucson chose the path they did.

🔑 The two key ingredients necessary for a successful turnaround, involving both the departing and incoming pastor.

🧭 Insights into the pastoral selection process and finding the right “fit.”

Roger: Let’s talk about the Tucson First Brethren Church Transition. Perhaps we can help others in their process. Let me ask, how did you come to find Tucson First Brethren?

Josh: I’ve always had an affinity for churches from an Anabaptist and Mennonite background. That’s something I discovered in seminary. Um, just studying theology, you know, churches should function. So I’ve always loved those streams of the Reformation, and then I was looking to get back into ministry, and my wife found a posting about a church, and we didn’t necessarily know it was a Brethren church. I don’t remember what it said, but she said, “Hey, there’s an opening. Looks like it’s a midtown.” And then I called.

Roger: I’m interested in your perspective on the “selection” process. We were trying to determine who God was calling here. What was it like from your perspective?

Josh: I was struck by the openness and humility of those with whom I was interacting. That was you and Ken. I got to meet the search committee. We just showed up on a Sunday morning, if you remember.  We weren’t interested in rushing into anything.  You, as a church, and we all felt urgency, but were not interested in rushing. So, I think the selection process was a patient one. We were all equally open to getting to know each other, both personally and professionally.

The tricky thing when you’re looking for a pastor is, there’s the personal fit of “Is the family gonna like it? Are they gonna feel welcome? Is the church gonna feel welcomed by that possible new pastor?”

Then there’s also alignment with the pastor’s skill set. And so, I was concerned with, is this a place that my wife is gonna like, and my kids are gonna like? Because we moved around a lot.

Then the second piece was “Is this a good fit for who God has called me to be, based on where the church is at?

Over the course of discernment, it seemed clear that there was a strong alignment between what the church needed and the particular skills I have developed as a pastor.

Roger: Can you guide us through the transition of the leadership process?

Josh: I would say it’s been customized for what the church needed (stability and change), what I needed in taking on a new job, and what Pastor Roger needed. We wanted some overlap between Roger and me, and we created it. That helped stabilize the church. From there, it was about the pace of change that would be healthy for the church to be successful.

That essentially meant getting the leaders together and having conversations about: Is there an expectation that I’m here, not making any changes, and just pastoring and shepherding for a year, 2 years? Or is there an appetite and readiness among the people and leaders for changes to happen sooner? It was really clear that the church was, at a minimum, ready for changes to the facility, which is why we launched the buildout process when we did.

What’s important to consider is that it’s got to be customized. There’s wisdom around, for instance, a pastor who’s retiring, going away for a while, or not making any changes for a long time, or something like that. But it seemed really clear that, based on this local church and who God has built us to be, it’s good for Pastor Roger to be around. That’s okay, and change needed to happen sooner than a lot of churches might necessarily need it. So we looked at the general wisdom on how transitions should go, and then we customized it to our needs.

Roger: Can you give us an idea of where we are in the transition/renovation process?

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. The only word to use right now is “early.” We’re very early in the process. When you look at either planting a church, replanting, or renovating, it’s a multi-year project. Then, when you look at Tucson being a difficult place to reach, it’s gonna be harder and take longer. So, I think this is a 3 to 5-year replant process. And I told the church that it’s starting on Easter 2025. So we are 6, 7 months into that process. In some ways, it’s easy to make the cosmetic change. As hard as it is to do a buildout, that’s a lot easier than us making sure we’re renovating the hearts of the people in the church to have a new focus. So that is also taking time. That’s less easy to predict than, like, “Oh, we have new chairs.”

Then we have to re-engage Tucson, which you can’t rush. So that is taking all the relationships that have been stewarded for a long time by Pastor Roger and the church. Then I’m taking the baton with local schools and other organizations, coffee shops, rec centers, the police and fire departments, and stewarding those relationships to relearn about Tucson and figure out who God has called us to reach. So we’re in the early stages of a 3 to 5-year process.

I look at it as a runway. As the plane is trying to get back off the ground, we only have a limited runway. That’s people, momentum, funds, and God’s vision. So we need to move at a pace that’s good for the church and the people to move through those steps.

Roger: What can we say to help somebody else, another church, in the denomination, that might be looking to start a process of transition, renewal, or renovation? Is there some key to what has gone on here that would be helpful to share with someone else? Some churches may be in the early stages of looking for a new pastor; others may be further along. Do you have helpful advice from what’s happened here to pass along?

Josh: One key ingredient that has helped, because when you’re facing a church in decline that needs to be turned around, reinvigorated, replanted, whatever word we want to use, it’s an extremely difficult thing to do. So there’s been a lot of alignment and unity between Pastor Roger, preparing the church, and trying to convince the church, and help them understand it’s gonna take something different for us to get back to where we were as a thriving church. So it takes a pastor who is on their way out, communicating with the people and preparing them for that change, even if they’re not going to bring it. Then it takes somebody with a unique skill set that isn’t just going to be trained as a pastor next to shepherd and pastor, but with a skill set to plant or revitalize. So there’s a cross-section of people who come in and are willing to take that on. Maybe they haven’t done that before, or they have been trained in it, but they’re willing to take that on. I think that’s a really key ingredient: a pastor needs the courage and humility to help people know, on the way out, that the change is coming, and then the person coming in needs to know what they’re signing up for. That’s the very first thing. Then we’re well on our way.

We’re certainly not a success story yet. What we have done has been successful so far. There’s a lot of unity in alignment, which I’m super excited about. But we also need people to check in a few years down the line to see where we are in that process, since we’re so early on. But that’s a big thing.

Roger: All right. Thank you. I appreciate your help on this.

Josh: Last thing I’ll say, another key ingredient of success is when I got here, I met with people who had done renovation projects, who have replanted or helped revitalize churches before, to get their feedback. I read a bunch of books on it. And the one thing that was very helpful for me coming in was understanding that there are 3 ways to approach a renovation or restoration process. The 1st one is to shut down the church altogether, and then eventually replant with the building, and the people disperse. The 2nd one is to celebrate what God’s done, but close things down on Sunday for 3 to 6 months or a year, and then take those people as the core team to restore the church. The 3rd one is what we’re doing: you don’t stop services; you continue churchgoing as is. But then you bring that change over time with the people who are already there. So it was helpful for me to ask the church and our restoration team, which one do we want? And the answer back to me was, we don’t want to stop services. We want to continue, and we’re okay with those changes happening over time while we’re here. That was helpful because it gave me a framework. There are pros and cons to each one.

Roger: You have been helpful. Thank you.